• Log In

The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast

A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog

Subscribe on Android Spotify Google Podcasts audible patreon
  • Home
  • Podcast
    • PEL Network Episodes
    • Publicly Available PEL Episodes
    • Paywalled and Ad-Free Episodes
    • PEL Episodes by Topic
    • Nightcap
    • (sub)Text
    • Pretty Much Pop
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • Phi Fic Podcast
    • Combat & Classics
    • Constellary Tales
  • Blog
  • About
    • PEL FAQ
    • Meet PEL
    • About Pretty Much Pop
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • Meet Phi Fic
    • Listener Feedback
    • Links
  • Join
    • Become a Citizen
    • Join Our Mailing List
    • Log In
  • Donate
  • Store
    • Episodes
    • Swag
    • Everything Else
    • Cart
    • Checkout
    • My Account
  • Contact
  • Mailing List

Nagarjuna on the Thing-in-Itself (More Westerhoff)

October 26, 2010 by Mark Linsenmayer 1 Comment

The ThingOur Nagarjuna episode seemed to conclude that ultimate reality is beyond our ability to speak about it. The objects of our experience are a shared fiction, and the most we can do with language is to show that they're fictional; even the terms we use to accomplish this (like emptiness) are themselves constructs, serving only this negative, critical function.

So, is there for Nagarjuna a Kantian thing-in-itself beyond our power to describe? A Tao, perhaps, an underlying God beyond human understanding? "The Void?" Westerhoff says no. Not only are knowable interdependently existing substances incoherent, but unknowable ones are too:

A key element... is denying that it makes any sense to speak of objects lying beyond our conceptual frameworks... These frameworks are all we have, and if we can show that some notion is not to be subsumed under them, we must not conclude that it therefore has some shadowy existence outside of the framework. To this extent our conceptual framework is to be thought of not so much as a map of a country, but as a set of rules for a game. If a traveler brings us news from a city in some far-off land which we cannot find on our map, we conclude... that it must be located somewhere outside of the area covered by our map.

But if somebody told us he had found a new opening gambit in chess but that this could not be written down using the familiar notation, we would be justified in being puzzled. After all, the notation allows us to describe all the... moves of chess... In this case we would conclude not that because of the limited nature of the expressive resources of chess notation this gambit was beyond its grasp, but rather that there was no such gambit. It is not that there are some objects within the grasp of our cognitive capacities as well as some beyond them, but rather that the very concept of an object is something established by these capacities. It is not that parts of the world might not correspond to our linguistic and conceptual frameworks but that the idea of a structure of reality independent of these practices is incoherent.

On this interpretation (and Westerhoff admits that Nagarjuna does not actually state a theory of language; this is an extrapolation from other things that are discussed), Nagarjuna is not like the Taoist saying that anything we can speak of is not the true Tao; he is more thoroughly negative about metaphysics. None of the possibilities for basic metaphysical concepts make sense, and there is no reality beyond our concepts, not even an unknowable, inexpressible thing-in-itself.

This view (which is certainly not universal within Buddhism) rejects the idea of a "Big Self" lurking behind phenomena, an underlying Oneness to creation. It's the view that metaphysics itself is untenable: all there is is the apparent world of samsara, though of course some aspects of this apparent world are easier for us to epistemically access than others, so there are still truths like emptiness and the other revelations of Enlightenment for us to discover, but even the Enlightenment experience does not get us access to reality-in-itself, as there is no such thing.

Do a search for some of the quoted text above in the Amazon preview of Westerhoff's book to read more.

Why the gross image at the head of this post? Why, it's from The Thing, of course! That's what happens when you do a Google image search for "thing-in-itself."

-Mark Linsenmayer

Facebooktwitterredditpinterestlinkedinmailby feather

Filed Under: PEL's Notes Tagged With: Buddhism, Nagarjuna, philosophy blog, philosophy podcast, rejection of metaphysics

Trackbacks

  1. Nagarjuna on Ultimate Truth | The Partially Examined Life | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    October 27, 2010 at 11:19 am

    […] Forums/Links « Nagarjuna on the Thing-in-Itself (More Westerhoff) […]

    Reply

Leave a Reply to Nagarjuna on Ultimate Truth | The Partially Examined Life | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Citizenship has its Benefits

Become a PEL Citizen
Become a PEL Citizen, and get access to all paywalled episodes, early and ad-free, including exclusive Part 2's for episodes starting September 2020; our after-show Nightcap, where the guys respond to listener email and chat more causally; a community of fellow learners, and more.

Rate and Review

Nightcap

Listen to Nightcap
On Nightcap, listen to the guys respond to listener email and chat more casually about their lives, the making of the show, current events and politics, and anything else that happens to come up.

Subscribe to Email Updates

Select list(s):

Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription.

Support PEL

Buy stuff through Amazon and send a few shekels our way at no extra cost to you.

Tweets by PartiallyExLife

Recent Comments

  • Daniel Gustafsson on Shakespeare’s “Timon of Athens” Audioplay (Part Two for Supporters)
  • B F on Ep. 298: Marsilio Ficino on Love (Part One)
  • Kris on Combat & Classics Ep. 58 Homer’s “Iliad” Book 1
  • Nietzsche on Dance Lessons with Nietzsche
  • Marty on Douglas Hofstadter’s “I Am a Strange Loop” on the Self

About The Partially Examined Life

The Partially Examined Life is a philosophy podcast by some guys who were at one point set on doing philosophy for a living but then thought better of it. Each episode, we pick a text and chat about it with some balance between insight and flippancy. You don’t have to know any philosophy, or even to have read the text we’re talking about to (mostly) follow and (hopefully) enjoy the discussion

Become a PEL Citizen!

As a PEL Citizen, you’ll have access to a private social community of philosophers, thinkers, and other partial examiners where you can join or initiate discussion groups dedicated to particular readings, participate in lively forums, arrange online meet-ups for impromptu seminars, and more. PEL Citizens also have free access to podcast transcripts, guided readings, episode guides, PEL music, and other citizen-exclusive material. Click here to join.

Blog Post Categories

  • (sub)Text
  • Aftershow
  • Announcements
  • Audiobook
  • Book Excerpts
  • Citizen Content
  • Citizen Document
  • Citizen News
  • Close Reading
  • Combat and Classics
  • Constellary Tales
  • Exclude from Newsletter
  • Featured Ad-Free
  • Featured Article
  • General Announcements
  • Interview
  • Letter to the Editor
  • Misc. Philosophical Musings
  • Nakedly Examined Music Podcast
  • Nakedly Self-Examined Music
  • NEM Bonus
  • Not School Recording
  • Not School Report
  • Other (i.e. Lesser) Podcasts
  • PEL Music
  • PEL Nightcap
  • PEL's Notes
  • Personal Philosophies
  • Phi Fic Podcast
  • Philosophy vs. Improv
  • Podcast Episode (Citizen)
  • Podcast Episodes
  • Pretty Much Pop
  • Reviewage
  • Song Self-Exam
  • Supporter Exclusive
  • Things to Watch
  • Vintage Episode (Citizen)
  • Web Detritus

Follow:

Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | Apple Podcasts

Copyright © 2009 - 2022 · The Partially Examined Life, LLC. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy · Terms of Use · Copyright Policy

Copyright © 2022 · Magazine Pro Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in