• Log In

The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast

A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog

Subscribe on Android Spotify Google Podcasts audible patreon
  • Home
  • Podcast
    • PEL Network Episodes
    • Publicly Available PEL Episodes
    • Paywalled and Ad-Free Episodes
    • PEL Episodes by Topic
    • Nightcap
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Pretty Much Pop
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • (sub)Text
    • Phi Fic Podcast
    • Combat & Classics
    • Constellary Tales
  • Blog
  • About
    • PEL FAQ
    • Meet PEL
    • About Pretty Much Pop
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • Meet Phi Fic
    • Listener Feedback
    • Links
  • Join
    • Become a Citizen
    • Join Our Mailing List
    • Log In
  • Donate
  • Store
    • Episodes
    • Swag
    • Everything Else
    • Cart
    • Checkout
    • My Account
  • Contact
  • Mailing List

Mill and Janet Radcliffe Richards re. Women’s Nature on Philosophy Bites

September 9, 2011 by Mark Linsenmayer 1 Comment

Another option Azzurra put out for us to discuss on the feminism episode was J.S. Mill's The Subjection of Women.

On reason I didn't want to have us read that (apart from it being an older text--1896--than I wanted and being written by a man) is that I listened to this "Philosophy Bites" podcast episode featuring British philosopher Janet Radcliffe Richards, who wrote The Skeptical Feminist: A Philosophical Enquiry.Richards does a great job on the episode in succinctly giving Mill's point, which is surprisingly prescient of the issue re. human nature we ran into in our discussion: given the historical subjection of women and what that's done to our culture, we can't know know the degree to which measured differences in outlook and behavior (such as those cited by Gilligan) are biological or are a matter of social conditioning. His solution is to remove the legal restrictions ("protections" in the eyes of the men of the time) on women and just let them compete. In other words, be gender-blind. This, too, well captures what's perhaps a majority male response in the West today.

It's not Gilligan's response, though: for her, we don't need gender blindness (or to adapt the metaphor to her language, deafness), but exactly the opposite. What does this mean? We Americans (or is it just men?), I think, are very quick to ask for the pragmatic bottom line and want to ignore/simplify whatever remains of the issue beyond that implication for our practice. This isn't a matter of simply figuring out appropriate legislation (should there be gender-specific protections/affirmative action in hiring, sexual harassment laws, etc.?) or deciding who's to blame or who to be annoyed at, but a matter of achieving a better understanding of the human condition, i.e. what philosophy is supposed to do. "The thought of women, absent men" as Azzurra described it at the outset of our discussion seems an interesting thought experiment in that regard, even if I think that the speculative conclusions Gilman arrived at are pretty bullshitty.

There are, of course, practical applications to such understanding, as there is to all psychological insight. One that I've been hearing a lot about recently (my wife just started a public policy master's program specializing in domestic violence) is trying to figure out why women of all economic classes are abused with such frequency. This is not, goes the claim, just a matter of individual men being aggressive assholes (though it is that), but a matter of a cultural history where women have been subjugated: not treated as full members of the moral community, as property, as "the Other" to the male protagonists from whose point of view history is written. Again, there's some self-reflection involved for us men here (How do sexual differences in libido affect dynamics in our relationships? Does the woman in the relationship inevitably end up doing more work around the house even if both parties work full time?), but this is mostly a matter, I think, of sociological study, and the implications of a sociological theory aren't necessarily going to be obvious or direct. If you react to the whole enterprise as a crass political attack on you as a male, you're missing the point.

-Mark Linsenmayer

Facebooktwitterredditpinterestlinkedinmailby feather

Filed Under: Misc. Philosophical Musings, Other (i.e. Lesser) Podcasts

Comments

  1. Andrew C says

    September 11, 2011 at 1:06 am

    My wife is a historian, and has made the argument (to me, not professionally) that most of the ‘equality’ catchup empowerment that women have had since the sixties has been by virtue of capitalist ethic seeking to broaden the base of employment in the economy, rather than a real rebalance of society to promote the wellbeing of women. This is good where women’s interests align with those of capital – economic independence seems a straightforward good. But as she sees pornography and other sex-work as a sign that things have gone pretty badly wrong for the women involved (and the men too), this economic existence = existence equation is suspect.

    For myself, I think a Heideggerian ‘always already’ reading of maleness and femaleness (and orientation), and how they can be taken up in infinitely varying social practices is the truth, but it doesn’t give you a clear, simple ideal to work toward. If everything needs to be defined in terms of everything else, its difficult to progress in the realm of theory. Perhaps trying to include ‘interesting’ in one’s (One’s) stereotypes would be a step toward more authentic practices of relationship.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

PEL Live Show 2023

Brothers K Live Show

Citizenship has its Benefits

Become a PEL Citizen
Become a PEL Citizen, and get access to all paywalled episodes, early and ad-free, including exclusive Part 2's for episodes starting September 2020; our after-show Nightcap, where the guys respond to listener email and chat more causally; a community of fellow learners, and more.

Rate and Review

Nightcap

Listen to Nightcap
On Nightcap, listen to the guys respond to listener email and chat more casually about their lives, the making of the show, current events and politics, and anything else that happens to come up.

Subscribe to Email Updates

Select list(s):

Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription.

Support PEL

Buy stuff through Amazon and send a few shekels our way at no extra cost to you.

Tweets by PartiallyExLife

Recent Comments

  • Theo on Ep. 308: Moore’s Proof of Mind-Independent Reality (Part Two)
  • Seth Paskin on PEL Eulogies Nightcap Late March 2023
  • John Heath on PEL Eulogies Nightcap Late March 2023
  • Randy Strader on Ep. 309: Wittgenstein On Certainty (Part Two)
  • Wes Alwan on PEL Nightcap February 2023

About The Partially Examined Life

The Partially Examined Life is a philosophy podcast by some guys who were at one point set on doing philosophy for a living but then thought better of it. Each episode, we pick a text and chat about it with some balance between insight and flippancy. You don’t have to know any philosophy, or even to have read the text we’re talking about to (mostly) follow and (hopefully) enjoy the discussion

Become a PEL Citizen!

As a PEL Citizen, you’ll have access to a private social community of philosophers, thinkers, and other partial examiners where you can join or initiate discussion groups dedicated to particular readings, participate in lively forums, arrange online meet-ups for impromptu seminars, and more. PEL Citizens also have free access to podcast transcripts, guided readings, episode guides, PEL music, and other citizen-exclusive material. Click here to join.

Blog Post Categories

  • (sub)Text
  • Aftershow
  • Announcements
  • Audiobook
  • Book Excerpts
  • Citizen Content
  • Citizen Document
  • Citizen News
  • Close Reading
  • Combat and Classics
  • Constellary Tales
  • Exclude from Newsletter
  • Featured Ad-Free
  • Featured Article
  • General Announcements
  • Interview
  • Letter to the Editor
  • Misc. Philosophical Musings
  • Nakedly Examined Music Podcast
  • Nakedly Self-Examined Music
  • NEM Bonus
  • Not School Recording
  • Not School Report
  • Other (i.e. Lesser) Podcasts
  • PEL Music
  • PEL Nightcap
  • PEL's Notes
  • Personal Philosophies
  • Phi Fic Podcast
  • Philosophy vs. Improv
  • Podcast Episode (Citizen)
  • Podcast Episodes
  • Pretty Much Pop
  • Reviewage
  • Song Self-Exam
  • Supporter Exclusive
  • Things to Watch
  • Vintage Episode (Citizen)
  • Web Detritus

Follow:

Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | Apple Podcasts

Copyright © 2009 - 2023 · The Partially Examined Life, LLC. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy · Terms of Use · Copyright Policy

Copyright © 2023 · Magazine Pro Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in