• Log In

The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast

A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog

Subscribe on Android Spotify Google Podcasts audible patreon
  • Home
  • Podcast
    • PEL Network Episodes
    • Publicly Available PEL Episodes
    • Paywalled and Ad-Free Episodes
    • PEL Episodes by Topic
    • Nightcap
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Pretty Much Pop
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • (sub)Text
    • Phi Fic Podcast
    • Combat & Classics
    • Constellary Tales
  • Blog
  • About
    • PEL FAQ
    • Meet PEL
    • About Pretty Much Pop
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • Meet Phi Fic
    • Listener Feedback
    • Links
  • Join
    • Become a Citizen
    • Join Our Mailing List
    • Log In
  • Donate
  • Store
    • Episodes
    • Swag
    • Everything Else
    • Cart
    • Checkout
    • My Account
  • Contact
  • Mailing List

Topic for #60: Aristotle’s Politics

June 21, 2012 by Mark Linsenmayer 11 Comments

Aristotle's Politics (from around 350 B.C.E.) is presented as a follow-up to his Nichomachean Ethics (which we discussed in a previous episode). Actually, we're not sure in what order these were composed, and the Politics is internally repetitious enough that it is probably itself mashed together from different original sources; those that are into that kind of thing can read more about the troubles of interpreting the form of those of Aristotle's works that have reached us at Aristotle's Stanford Encyclopedia page.

The distinction between ethics and politics for Aristotle (as for Plato) is tenuous, as part of "virtue" is how one acts as a citizen (man being a political animal and all), and the form of government will define what citizenship entails. Aristotle thought that a person can only really achieve his potential (his telos) when in a well-structured society, and that society is a natural outgrowth of the human need for association. What makes for a well-structured society? Aristotle is a realist, unlike Plato (if you take Plato's Republic to be a serious political text and not just an allegorical account of the human soul; it's clear that Aristotle did take Plato's suggestions about education and ordering social classes seriously), so he recognizes that there's not one kind of government that will be the best of the available options for all peoples at all times and in all social situations, but he does think that we can examine the experience of the many city-states with different constitutions (a constitution is not necessarily a document; it's just Aristotle's way of referring to the arrangement of political offices) to come up with a plethora of insights into what makes a state work (i.e. fulfill its own telos). What's important overall is that the best rule, meaning those with good judgment, which for Aristotle amounts to a sense of justice.

A state needs first and foremost to be stable, meaning that in general, even a bad law is better kept in place, so as to give the citizens the habit of keeping orderly; the advantage gained by reform will not be likely to outweigh the disadvantage of the disorder brought about by the change. Aristotle was keenly aware of class struggle: if the rich (the few) are put in power (an oligarchy), they will exploit the poor, while if the poor (the many) are put in power (a democracy), they will likely fleece the rich. In either case, dissension is the likely result. While Aristotle thinks the ideal government would have an all-wise, all-benevolent monarch at its head, he thinks that in practice, monarchies tend to devolve into tyrannies, which he considers the worst of all possible governments, in that they don't promote the flourishing of the citizens, and again, they're not stable. Besides, in general, more heads are better than fewer, so long as all of those heads are wise, which Aristotle thinks is not likely given how difficult it is to attain wisdom/virtue.

Aristotle considers such questions as: Who should the citizenry include? (He disdained the mere artisans and believed that some people are naturally slaves.) Is it more important to have good laws or wise people deciding individual cases according to the law? (Really, you need both.) Is the active political life better than the contemplative, philosophical life? (These are both part of the human telos.) Should citizens play the flute? (No, they should have musical instruction, which like philosophy is training to flourish in a state of peace, but the flute is too hard and should be left to slaves and other riff-raff.)

Buy the book or read it online.

Our assigned sections of this are:

Book 1, chapters 1,2
Book 3
Book 4, 1-3
Book 5, 1,2
Book 6, 1-6
Book 7, 1-3, 13-15

Books 2 and 8 include his responses to the Republic, if you're interested, though we don't take those particular parts of Plato seriously enough to warrant covering this part of Aristotle in detail.

Facebooktwitterredditpinterestlinkedinmailby feather

Filed Under: General Announcements Tagged With: Aristotle, philosophy podcast, political philosophy, politics

Comments

  1. Ross says

    June 21, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    As far as I could tell he viewed money, banking and usury as something unpleasant, unnatural and far from the ideal to strive for. Every free man should own some land to avoid becoming a slave to others.

    However I would argue that finance is a technology and can be used for good and bad depending on who weilds it. Many things are unnatural, Weapons, clothes, furniture. It might be a problem of translation / interpretation so i look forward to hearing your opinions.

    What was aristotles view on money, finance, markets and usury?
    ( I think there could be strong connections to diogenes.)

    Is the main goal in life, friendship in our journey to death?

    What did you think of his protrayal in Alexander the movie?

    Reply
    • Duncan Pugh says

      June 22, 2012 at 4:34 am

      From my recollection Aristotle says that the first thing the ruler must control is the marketplace which says it all really. I mean regarding usury etc.

      He was most definitely not into ‘agorism’.

      Reply
  2. C. Keen says

    June 21, 2012 at 3:15 pm

    I’d love to hear your thoughts on the role of technological/scientific innovation, public religion, and ‘mixed government’ in what Aristotle presents as the best regime humans could hope for. It would also be interesting to hear all of your thoughts on how Aristotle’s judgments support or stand in opposition to basic liberal opinions about the role and character of government. Based on Aristotle’s account of ‘the best regime’ later in the Politics, what might he have had to say about contemporary liberal democracy? Looking forward to it!

    Reply
  3. Duncan Pugh says

    June 22, 2012 at 4:38 am

    Aristotle\s responses to Plato\s Republic are based on a misrepresentation of Plato’s politeia.

    Reply
    • Seth Paskin says

      June 28, 2012 at 10:26 pm

      Details?

      Reply
  4. Leonard Williams says

    June 26, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    There are two big questions that I explore with my students: (1) Can Aristotle’s relatively attractive views on political life be separated from his more troublesome views about women and “natural slavery”? (2) Is Aristotle’s model of a somewhat participatory democracy viable in large, corporate, capitalist societies like our own?

    Reply
    • Seth Paskin says

      June 28, 2012 at 10:27 pm

      We are totally derailed right now on #1

      Reply
      • dmf says

        June 29, 2012 at 7:08 am

        I would think that #2 is the harder question in terms of updating/naturalizing him, someday maybe you folks can check out the Dewey/Lippmann debates.

        Reply
  5. Ross says

    June 27, 2012 at 3:01 am

    http://www.nbu.bg/webs/clubpsy/Materiali%20za%20kachvane/Library/razlichni%20lekcii%20na%20angliiski/Aristotle%20and%20Organizations.pdf

    I think robert solomoms ethics and excellence might have some bearing / relevance, I am struggling through the book, he seems to take a very long time to give the message that amorality is not good enough in business that requires the use of externalities of the commons, such as educated workers, transport infrastructure, energy supply, police, fire and Emergency medical, pollution and water infrastructure etc…

    Although the book is titled ethics and excellence i still think its relevant to aristotles politics. A states economy is a vital part of its political strength.

    Stating that a ruler must control the marketplace does not “say it all” imho.

    Reply

Trackbacks

  1. Rousseau, Aristotle, and Freud on Political Narcissism | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    July 14, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    […] are related to several developmental accounts of society and psyche. For instance, according to Aristotle the goal of a state is a good life for its citizens, whereas the more rudimentary associations out […]

    Reply
  2. Partially Examined Life Ep. 60: Aristotle's Politics | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    August 27, 2015 at 12:15 pm

    […] Aristotle provides both a taxonomy of the types of government, based on observations of numerous constitutions of the states of his time, and prescriptions on how to best order a state. These are meant to be practical; though he does spend some time on the "ideal" government, he recognizes that that's going to be very rare, given that it requires those in charge to be virtuous according to his stringent standards. He provides advice for all the types, whether rule by one, or the few, or the many, to help keep them stable and from drifting into their corrupt forms. He sees the state as a natural outgrowth of human nature, and that one can characterize the health of a state in much the way one can describe the health (i.e. virtue, happiness) of an individual. Yes, he's a major league elitist, but there's still some good stuff here, applicable even to modern times. Read more about the topic and get the book. […]

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

PEL Live Show 2023

Brothers K Live Show

Citizenship has its Benefits

Become a PEL Citizen
Become a PEL Citizen, and get access to all paywalled episodes, early and ad-free, including exclusive Part 2's for episodes starting September 2020; our after-show Nightcap, where the guys respond to listener email and chat more causally; a community of fellow learners, and more.

Rate and Review

Nightcap

Listen to Nightcap
On Nightcap, listen to the guys respond to listener email and chat more casually about their lives, the making of the show, current events and politics, and anything else that happens to come up.

Subscribe to Email Updates

Select list(s):

Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription.

Support PEL

Buy stuff through Amazon and send a few shekels our way at no extra cost to you.

Tweets by PartiallyExLife

Recent Comments

  • Bibliophile on Pretty Much Pop #143: Pinocchio the Unfilmable (Yet Frequently Filmed)
  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 302: Erasmus Praises Foolishness (Part Two)
  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 308: Moore’s Proof of Mind-Independent Reality (Part Two for Supporters)
  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 201: Marcus Aurelius’s Stoicism with Ryan Holiday (Citizen Edition)
  • MartinK on Ep. 201: Marcus Aurelius’s Stoicism with Ryan Holiday (Citizen Edition)

About The Partially Examined Life

The Partially Examined Life is a philosophy podcast by some guys who were at one point set on doing philosophy for a living but then thought better of it. Each episode, we pick a text and chat about it with some balance between insight and flippancy. You don’t have to know any philosophy, or even to have read the text we’re talking about to (mostly) follow and (hopefully) enjoy the discussion

Become a PEL Citizen!

As a PEL Citizen, you’ll have access to a private social community of philosophers, thinkers, and other partial examiners where you can join or initiate discussion groups dedicated to particular readings, participate in lively forums, arrange online meet-ups for impromptu seminars, and more. PEL Citizens also have free access to podcast transcripts, guided readings, episode guides, PEL music, and other citizen-exclusive material. Click here to join.

Blog Post Categories

  • (sub)Text
  • Aftershow
  • Announcements
  • Audiobook
  • Book Excerpts
  • Citizen Content
  • Citizen Document
  • Citizen News
  • Close Reading
  • Combat and Classics
  • Constellary Tales
  • Exclude from Newsletter
  • Featured Ad-Free
  • Featured Article
  • General Announcements
  • Interview
  • Letter to the Editor
  • Misc. Philosophical Musings
  • Nakedly Examined Music Podcast
  • Nakedly Self-Examined Music
  • NEM Bonus
  • Not School Recording
  • Not School Report
  • Other (i.e. Lesser) Podcasts
  • PEL Music
  • PEL Nightcap
  • PEL's Notes
  • Personal Philosophies
  • Phi Fic Podcast
  • Philosophy vs. Improv
  • Podcast Episode (Citizen)
  • Podcast Episodes
  • Pretty Much Pop
  • Reviewage
  • Song Self-Exam
  • Supporter Exclusive
  • Things to Watch
  • Vintage Episode (Citizen)
  • Web Detritus

Follow:

Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | Apple Podcasts

Copyright © 2009 - 2023 · The Partially Examined Life, LLC. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy · Terms of Use · Copyright Policy

Copyright © 2023 · Magazine Pro Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in