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Episode 115: Schopenhauer on Music with Guest Jonathan Segel

May 11, 2015 by Mark Linsenmayer 20 Comments

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/partiallyexaminedlife/PEL_ep_115_4-19-15.mp3

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 2:15:21 — 124.0MB)

SchopenhauerOn Arthur Schopenhauer's The World As Will and Representation (1818), vol. 1, book 3, sections 34, 38-39, 40, 45, and focusing on 51 and 52, plus chapters 34 and 39 from vol. 3 (1844). This continues our previous discussion of book 2 and the beginning of book 3.

Is music just pleasing, structured sound? Schopenhauer thinks it's much more than that: it's our way of experiencing Will itself, the striving that underlies and unifies the universe. But oddly, the only way to really enjoy it or any other art (at least in the manner S. approves of, which does not involve "boogying") is to in some sense leave our personal strivings behind and enter a state of will-less contemplation.

Mark, Wes, and Dylan are joined by Jonathan Segel (from the band Camper Van Beethoven) to discuss the beautiful (good!), the charming (bad!), the sublime (scary, but extra good), how music differs from the representational arts (it's better), how music does or doesn't go with words and images, and what Platonic Ideas have to do with all of this. And did you know that cellos are vegetables? You did not. Read more about the topic and get the readings. Also, check out the Aftershow where Mark and Jonathan chatted more with listeners and host Danny Lobell.

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End song: "(Ever and) Always" by Jonathan Segel from All Attractions (2012). More info.

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Young Schopenhauer picture by Cory Mohler.

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Filed Under: Podcast Episodes Tagged With: aesthetics, Arthur Schopenhauer, Camper van Beethoven, philosophy of art, philosophy of music, philosophy podcast

Comments

  1. dmf says

    May 11, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    and the beat goes on
    http://new-savanna.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-rhythm-of-consciousness.html

    Reply
  2. Michael deCamp says

    May 15, 2015 at 7:39 am

    When Jonathan brought up the concept of culturally induced expectations of tonic-dominant, cadence etc. he thought to vitiate it with the concept of neural resonance. Neural plasticity, however, would bolster the cultural concept; what we hear, how we meditate, what we do with our bodies is mirrored by changes in brain structure.

    Reply
  3. Conner Fields says

    May 18, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    Adorno also talks about music, in his “The Culture Industry”, specifically The Fetish Character in Music, and The Regression of Listening.

    Reply
  4. Anihilist says

    May 18, 2015 at 9:26 pm

    Hey! Late to the party having just discovered this pod cast. Love it so far and happy you guys did this. On episode 11 or so – I have a lot of listening ahead of me.

    Anyways, in re to Schopenhauer but unrelated to the topic:
    http://fuckyeahdiomedes.tumblr.com/post/109926716974/what-philosopher-should-you-fight

    Perhaps someone will think this is funny… I did.

    Reply
  5. doug pinkard says

    May 22, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Got to see (and very slightly get to know) Fred Frith when he first came to New York with a couple of H. Cow and Gong folks in the late 70’s, including the (sadly) recently deceased Daevid Allen. Why’s he supposed to be a more obscure reference than Mick Jagger or Jay-Z? I don’t see it. Now, Derek Bailey, maybe…

    Reply
  6. Andrew Trudo says

    July 12, 2015 at 9:15 pm

    Great episode guys! I love all the Schopenhauer ones. Schopenhauer was the first philosopher I read and still the one I read the most. I think he’s right about music. Anytime I put on my ipod to “escape” or change my mood, I prove Schopenhauer’s point to myself. Same with concerts, movies, etc. It’s a losing oneself, a letting go. I don’t think it’s so much an “engagement with” as most philosophers think. After a few drinks at a good rock concert, Schopenhauer always seems dead right to me. I enjoyed the listen. Thanks.

    Reply

Trackbacks

  1. Listen to the Full-Capacity Ep. 115 Aftershow | The Partially Examined Life | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    May 18, 2015 at 12:43 pm

    […] only one Citizen listener attending, this time Danny Lobell and I had a packed house to reflect on episode 115 on Schopenhauer and music. Jonathan Segel was good enough to rejoin us to show off his infant daughter and rail about […]

    Reply
  2. Topic for #118: The Examined Musical Life (with Half of Camper Van Beethoven) | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    June 19, 2015 at 7:00 am

    […] Jonathan Segel joined us for episode #115, I had hoped to get him talking about the experience of music and the life of a professional […]

    Reply
  3. ‘Identification’ with/in Music | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    July 1, 2015 at 1:28 pm

    […] background for our discussion of identification was Schopenhauer's account, which is very weird and specific to Schopenhauer (we are will, music channels the will, so music […]

    Reply
  4. Musical Aesthetics vs. a Musical Ethic | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    July 12, 2015 at 2:03 pm

    […] to music as lived by our guests, and seeing how this jibed with the idea of music as imitation, per our Schopenhauer discussion. Now, even during the Schopenhauer discussion, we didn't think that imitation worked well for all […]

    Reply
  5. Nakedly Examined Music #1. David Lowery on Story Songs and Songs About Nothing | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    January 1, 2016 at 11:34 pm

    […] to songwriters associated with Camper van Beethoven (other members of which I've interviewed here, here, and here). I've got some good interviews already lined up, and invite you all to submit your […]

    Reply
  6. PEL Special: Nakedly Examined Music #1 with David Lowery | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    February 17, 2016 at 10:38 pm

    […] to songwriters associated with Camper van Beethoven (other members of which I've interviewed here, here, and […]

    Reply
  7. A full April, continued (part 2) | Jonathan Segel says:
    March 4, 2016 at 4:42 am

    […] I was a bit hungover the next day, which was probably not the best shape to be in to do the video chat recording for The Partially Examined Life on Schopenhauer and aesthetics… […]

    Reply
  8. Part 3, “Will and Representation” | Jonathan Segel says:
    March 8, 2016 at 8:57 am

    […] the show on The Partially Examined Life podcast episode 115 where we spoke about Schopenhauer and aesthetics, we read the third book of “The World as Will and Representation,” (or, […]

    Reply
  9. Episode 137: Bourdieu on the Tastes of Social Classes (Part One) | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    April 17, 2016 at 10:31 pm

    […] Recommended prerequisites: This can be seen as a reaction to the snobbiness displayed by Adorno (ep. 136), but Bourdieu explicitly identifies the un-worldly (which requires being shielded from economic necessity), aesthetic (and ultimately ascetic, i.e., denying of immediate pleasures) stance with Kant's theory of taste (ep. 105), and also explicitly discusses Schopenhauer's view (ep. 115). […]

    Reply
  10. An end of summer update | Jonathan Segel says:
    September 19, 2016 at 3:38 am

    […] me talking on The Partially Examined Life, episode 115, about Schopenhauer and aesthetics, and with Victor Krummenacher on episode 118 about […]

    Reply
  11. NEM #38: Jonathan Segel’s Long-Form Songs | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    March 5, 2017 at 10:01 pm

    […] CVB, the first being David Lowery. You can hear Jonathan on The Partially Examined Life episodes 115 and 118 (the latter of which also featured CVB bassist Victor Krummenacher, who will hopefully be […]

    Reply
  12. NEM#38: Jonathan Segel’s Long-Form Songs says:
    October 22, 2017 at 12:38 pm

    […] CVB, the first being David Lowery. You can hear Jonathan on The Partially Examined Life episodes 115 and 118 (the latter of which also featured CVB bassist Victor Krummenacher, who will hopefully be […]

    Reply
  13. Links and still playing catch-up | Jonathan Segel says:
    October 2, 2018 at 1:17 pm

    […] me talking on The Partially Examined Life, episode 115, about Schopenhauer and aesthetics, and with Victor Krummenacher on episode 118 about […]

    Reply
  14. The Philosophy of Schopenhauer: A Collection of Online Resources and Key Quotes | The Daily Idea says:
    October 19, 2019 at 8:07 pm

    […] Schopenhauer on Music with Guest Jonathan Segel […]

    Reply

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