• Log In

The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast

A Philosophy Podcast and Philosophy Blog

Subscribe on Android Spotify Google Podcasts audible patreon
  • Home
  • Podcast
    • PEL Network Episodes
    • Publicly Available PEL Episodes
    • Paywalled and Ad-Free Episodes
    • PEL Episodes by Topic
    • Nightcap
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Pretty Much Pop
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • (sub)Text
    • Phi Fic Podcast
    • Combat & Classics
    • Constellary Tales
  • Blog
  • About
    • PEL FAQ
    • Meet PEL
    • About Pretty Much Pop
    • Philosophy vs. Improv
    • Nakedly Examined Music
    • Meet Phi Fic
    • Listener Feedback
    • Links
  • Join
    • Become a Citizen
    • Join Our Mailing List
    • Log In
  • Donate
  • Store
    • Episodes
    • Swag
    • Everything Else
    • Cart
    • Checkout
    • My Account
  • Contact
  • Mailing List

Episode 160: Orwell on Totalitarianism and Language (Part Two)

March 20, 2017 by Mark Linsenmayer 9 Comments

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/partiallyexaminedlife/PEL_ep_160pt2_2-21-17.mp3

Podcast: Play in new window | Download (Duration: 1:15:51 — 69.5MB)

Continuing with 1984.

How does the book relate to today's politics, or to the politics of his time? Does Orwell present something that we should actually be afraid our society will turn into? Are people really motivated by power for power's sake as Orwell depicts? Was he predicting history based on current trends, or was it satire, or what?

We discuss the relationship between minds: the realms of intimacy vs. surveillance, how a state might "contain" a mind that it controls, and "doublethink," where one mind is split—much like Sartre's "Bad Faith"—to intentionally delude itself.

Listen to part 1 first, or get the ad-free Citizen Edition.

End song: "Civil Disobedience" by Camper Van Beethoven from New Roman Times (2004), written by Jonathan Segel as interviewed on Nakedly Examined Music ep. 38.

Sponsors: Visit Talkspace.com/examined; use code "EXAMINED" for 30% off your first month of online therapy. Go to blueapron.com/PEL for three free meals with free shipping.

Check out this cool lefty podcast: srslywrong.com. (The episode Mark was a guest on is #89.)

Facebooktwitterredditpinterestlinkedinmailby feather

Filed Under: Podcast Episodes Tagged With: 1984, George Orwell, philosophy of language, philosophy podcast, political philosophy, totalitarianism

Comments

  1. dmf says

    March 20, 2017 at 8:01 am

    might be a good followup to Orwell:
    https://larvalsubjects.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/hacking-the-social-construction-of-what2.pdf

    Reply
  2. Evan Hadkins says

    March 21, 2017 at 4:56 am

    Brave New World has five classes from alpha to epsilon.

    Reply
  3. Evan Hadkins says

    March 21, 2017 at 5:29 am

    At the height of Maddison Ave advertising, there were advertisers who said that they really had to believe the particular product they were writing copy for was the best in the world. Until they came to write copy for the next product. This is pretty close to doublethink.

    Reply
  4. Graham says

    March 25, 2017 at 7:14 pm

    Great Episode!

    You mentioned Rorty only in passing, but his relation to Orwell is quite interesting in my Opinion. Rorty has a chapter on Orwell and Truth in his Contingency, Irony, and Solidarity. The Book “Rorty and His Critics” by Brandom additionally has an exchange between James Conant and Rorty on the latters position. Conant’s contribution is a long but in my opinion very interesting read. According to him, Rorty “fails and is unable to read” Orwell.

    This really goes deeper into the tension between truth, relativism, and Rortyian Pragmatism the Podcast alluded to, so I encourage anyone interested to read into it.

    Reply
    • Robert Williams says

      March 26, 2017 at 2:03 pm

      I second the recommendation of the excellent Rorty/Conant exchange on Orwell and truth–it is no accident that Rorty got around to 1984 eventually. But Conant is right: Rorty will not read Orwell for anything but his own purposes. Wes’s tribute to Orwell at the end of the podcast reminded me of my favorite remark about Orwell, by Stanley Cavell, Conant’s teacher: “Orwell’s writing, here [“Lear, Tolstoy and the Fool”] and elsewhere, is exemplary of a correct way in which the moral sensibility, distrusting higher ambitions, exercises its right to judge an imperfect world, never exempting itself from that world” (Must We Mean What We Say? 303). A podcast devoted to Cavell, the greatest American philosopher of the 20th century, is long overdue. He is great on movies, as Danto said, but he is great on everything he takes up.

      Reply
  5. Lars Buchardt says

    March 27, 2017 at 6:53 am

    Thanks for the great podcasts!

    I would like to add this:

    From ‘Spiritual Exercises’, Ignatius of Loyola, 1522/1548:

    Thirteenth Rule: To be right in everything, we ought always to hold that the white which I see, is black if the hierarchical Church so decides it, believing that between Christ our Lord, the bridegroom, and the Church, His bride, there is the same spirit, which governs and directs us for the salvation of our souls. Because by the same spirit and our Lord who gave the Ten Commandments, our holy mother the Church is directed and governed.

    https://www.ccel.org/ccel/ignatius/exercises.xix.v.html

    Maybe Orwell studied The Spiritual Exercises?

    Qoute from 1984:

    “Oceanic society rests ultimately on the belief that Big Brother is omnipotent and that the Party is infallible. But since in reality Big Brother is not omnipotent and the party is not infallible, there is need for an unwearying, moment-to-moment flexibility in the treatment of facts. The keyword here is BLACKWHITE. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to BELIEVE that black is white, and more, to KNOW that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary.”

    http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7502633-oceanic-society-rests-ultimately-on-the-belief-that-big-brother

    Also,
    Thomas Pynchons 2003 introduction to 1984 is worth reading:

    https://www.scribd.com/doc/100899/Pynchon-s-Intro-to-Orwell-s-1984

    All the best,
    Lars Buchardt,
    Copenhagen

    Reply
  6. Andrew Cruickshank says

    October 2, 2017 at 6:36 pm

    I first read 1984 at 15 when I was wrestling with whether and how to be a Christian (having been raised in a conservative Australian evangelical tradition in a family that was smart enough to put the strengths in a good light and cover over the weaknesses).

    It seemed then, and it still seems, that Orwell has made his Party adopt much of its language from Christianity and that it works as a critique of Christian (church) authoritarianism. I am working from memory and have never done the project of reading carefully, but:
    – ‘God is light, and in him there is no darkness at all.’ cf Minilove, the place where there is no darkness
    – ‘Perfect Love casts out fear.’ cf Room 101, the fear (of rats) is the instrument to cast love out of Winston.
    – ‘Christ, the firstborn among many brothers.’ cf Big Brother (I think you mentioned those ‘unseen listener to every conversation’ plaques Christians sometimes have in their homes.)
    – Finally that ‘those who control the past control the present’ – a perfect description of the power operations of the gospel accounts of Jesus life and work and resurrection.

    I feel sure there are a bunch of other likenesses to be drawn, but I hope that’s enough to make the point. There is a real sickness in evangelicalism; wrestling with this critique would be very healthy. There is a book called ‘Torture and Eucharist’ which discusses the means by which christians try to heal the psychic wounds of those who have been through torture, to bring the perfect love that casts out fear back to life in people. (link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/paperbacktheology/2007/09/torture-and-eucharist-book-review.html)

    Reply
  7. Ryan McManus says

    October 14, 2017 at 9:13 pm

    I would like to respond to a couple points made during the discussion.
    The motivation of the party and power and whats in it for them and the lack of capitol.
    The inner party has more than better food. O’Brien has a servant, a nice place to live he can turn the telescreen off so the are living materially privileged lives. Also they access to past and seem to revel in it-see Charrington’s rhyme , they can think or when they think it is okay when others do it is thought crime! The motivation is less clear , power for powers sake seems very hazy but we must remember that this is a post nuclear world war world. After the world powers have obliterated the world what is left for the elite of the society that emerges after the world has burned. Orwell believed that there would be nuclear war in the 20th century and I think that is where his idea about power for it’s on sake comes from, it’s about the only thing left to pursue in an empty world.

    Reply

Trackbacks

  1. Episode 160: Orwell on Totalitarianism and Language (Part One) | The Partially Examined Life Philosophy Podcast | A Philosophy Podcast and Blog says:
    March 20, 2017 at 9:24 am

    […] on Part 2, or get your unbroken, ad-free Citizen Edition right now. Please support […]

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

PEL Live Show 2023

Brothers K Live Show

Citizenship has its Benefits

Become a PEL Citizen
Become a PEL Citizen, and get access to all paywalled episodes, early and ad-free, including exclusive Part 2's for episodes starting September 2020; our after-show Nightcap, where the guys respond to listener email and chat more causally; a community of fellow learners, and more.

Rate and Review

Nightcap

Listen to Nightcap
On Nightcap, listen to the guys respond to listener email and chat more casually about their lives, the making of the show, current events and politics, and anything else that happens to come up.

Subscribe to Email Updates

Select list(s):

Check your inbox or spam folder to confirm your subscription.

Support PEL

Buy stuff through Amazon and send a few shekels our way at no extra cost to you.

Tweets by PartiallyExLife

Recent Comments

  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 302: Erasmus Praises Foolishness (Part Two)
  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 308: Moore’s Proof of Mind-Independent Reality (Part Two for Supporters)
  • Mark Linsenmayer on Ep. 201: Marcus Aurelius’s Stoicism with Ryan Holiday (Citizen Edition)
  • MartinK on Ep. 201: Marcus Aurelius’s Stoicism with Ryan Holiday (Citizen Edition)
  • Wayne Barr on Ep. 308: Moore’s Proof of Mind-Independent Reality (Part Two for Supporters)

About The Partially Examined Life

The Partially Examined Life is a philosophy podcast by some guys who were at one point set on doing philosophy for a living but then thought better of it. Each episode, we pick a text and chat about it with some balance between insight and flippancy. You don’t have to know any philosophy, or even to have read the text we’re talking about to (mostly) follow and (hopefully) enjoy the discussion

Become a PEL Citizen!

As a PEL Citizen, you’ll have access to a private social community of philosophers, thinkers, and other partial examiners where you can join or initiate discussion groups dedicated to particular readings, participate in lively forums, arrange online meet-ups for impromptu seminars, and more. PEL Citizens also have free access to podcast transcripts, guided readings, episode guides, PEL music, and other citizen-exclusive material. Click here to join.

Blog Post Categories

  • (sub)Text
  • Aftershow
  • Announcements
  • Audiobook
  • Book Excerpts
  • Citizen Content
  • Citizen Document
  • Citizen News
  • Close Reading
  • Combat and Classics
  • Constellary Tales
  • Exclude from Newsletter
  • Featured Ad-Free
  • Featured Article
  • General Announcements
  • Interview
  • Letter to the Editor
  • Misc. Philosophical Musings
  • Nakedly Examined Music Podcast
  • Nakedly Self-Examined Music
  • NEM Bonus
  • Not School Recording
  • Not School Report
  • Other (i.e. Lesser) Podcasts
  • PEL Music
  • PEL Nightcap
  • PEL's Notes
  • Personal Philosophies
  • Phi Fic Podcast
  • Philosophy vs. Improv
  • Podcast Episode (Citizen)
  • Podcast Episodes
  • Pretty Much Pop
  • Reviewage
  • Song Self-Exam
  • Supporter Exclusive
  • Things to Watch
  • Vintage Episode (Citizen)
  • Web Detritus

Follow:

Twitter | Facebook | Google+ | Apple Podcasts

Copyright © 2009 - 2023 · The Partially Examined Life, LLC. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy · Terms of Use · Copyright Policy

Copyright © 2023 · Magazine Pro Theme on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in